In SVPG’s Coach the Coaches workshop held last month in London, Marty Cagan talked about the fact that product managers must have direct access to customers. To most of you, this probably sounds trivial (or at least so I can hope), but I’ve seen and experienced firsthand companies where salespeople are reluctant to let others talk to customers directly. I’ll get back to this point in a few paragraphs, but first I want to share with you a story about a special man I had the privilege of learning from.

In my first role outside of R&D, the one which eventually led me to product management, I reported to the Director of Solutions of the company, a guy called Raviv. Raviv was a seasoned manager with many years of experience. He was already a seasoned manager when I got my first managerial role back in 2000 (I know that because he taught us project management in the management training class I attended back then). He wasn’t always an easy boss though. He worked around the clock, was very meticulous, and always wanted things to be perfect. 

One of those things he wanted to perfect, or at least so I thought, was do’s and don’ts when you talk to customers. As a newbie from R&D who didn’t have much face time with customers before, Raviv felt the need to prepare me for each and every meeting. He would go into details of what we can and cannot say, emphasizing time and again that whatever I say now represents the entire company and not just myself. He kept explaining the dynamics of a B2B sale and gave me the feeling that everything is so fragile. One wrong word could ruin a good deal. 

At some point, after so many times he explained it to me, I knew I got it. I got the principles, I already knew how to avoid the landmines of a complex conversation, I learned how to say no in a way that leaves enough opening for the discussion to continue, and practiced time and again the patience required to say ‘let me check it and get back to you’. When Raviv kept giving me his prep talks before each and every customer meeting (usually over coffee outside, we were actually visiting customers in their offices back then!), I started feeling that he was over protecting the customers and deals in play. I told myself that it was his problem, that he was almost paranoid about losing deals where things seemed to work just fine. 

It was only two years later, when I was already a product manager at a different company, that I realized how much he was right. I learned firsthand how fragile enterprise sales processes were, and still was able to gain the trust of the sales team who wanted me to join meetings with customers since they knew I would help and not break things. I found myself using the skills that Raviv taught me on a daily basis. I felt so grateful.

Now, back to Marty Cagan’s workshop. Marty shared that at HP, the sales team created a training called “Charm School”, to teach product managers the secrets of proper communication with customers. When I heard it, I immediately realized that I had my own Charm School – the one Raviv created just for me.

Unfortunately, I didn’t get to thank Raviv in person since he passed away before I had the chance to do so, but I still use his lessons all the time, and teach them to others since I know most people don’t get that type of proper training. Here is one of the most important concepts I learned from Raviv: how to really listen to your customers.

Raviv practicing his bike-riding hobby. Another thing he did wholeheartedly, like everything else he was engaged in.

What Listening to Customers Really Means

One of the things Raviv taught me was how to listen, and it also included how to respond. Or better yet — how to NOT respond.

Raviv always preferred to end the meeting the moment we had all the information we needed and get back to the customer with a thought-through response only afterward. Taking the time to think through the response allowed us, of course, to answer more responsibly and return a better answer.

But Raviv didn’t leave it at that. His process of listening continued long after the meeting has ended.

After each meeting with a customer or stakeholder, we would set time to sit together and discuss our response. Raviv started each of these discussions with the same question: “so, what did they actually tell us?”.

The question wasn’t about the words they used. It was about the underlying messages — sometimes clear and sometimes hidden in what they said, their body language, how they reacted to certain questions and also the things they didn’t say.

To get to fully understand our customers, we needed to analyze everything listed above. We spend a good chunk of our discussions speculating and trying to get to the bottom of what they actually told us — in words and in a variety of other ways.

The decisions we took and the response we gave were based on our understanding of what they were trying to say (including all the hidden signals), not necessarily on the words they actually said.

Quantitative Data Isn’t Always the Answer

This capability of getting to the bottom of what people actually need, even if they didn’t tell us explicitly, lies at the heart of the product leader’s work. Henry Ford’s horses and all.

Unfortunately I often see a different pattern these days. Everyone knows we should be data-driven. Everyone is seeking validation and answers from potential customers and stakeholders. But I too often hear “I asked them, but they didn’t say what they needed. So what should I do now?”, or even “but I gave them what they said they wanted, why aren’t they happy?”.

Well, that part of figuring out what they really need is on you, not on them. They are not product people. They can only talk in their language and represent how they think. The subtle art of getting to a deeper understanding of what they need is your job to master.

The Real Interview Happens When You Are Alone

I can’t possibly include in a single article everything you need to know and what to do exactly to get to fully understand your customers. Moreover, this is much better achieved in an ongoing mentoring process like I got from Raviv and I offer my customers today — on-job training with real problems to solve together.

But you can start right away with the habit I learned from Raviv and mentioned above:

After each customer meeting, take the time to reflect on the meeting. Preferably do it not immediately afterward, give things some time to sink in.

If there was someone with you in the meeting, do it with them — a discussion in these cases is better than thinking alone.

Ask yourself the following questions:

• What did they actually tell us?
• What did their body language imply?
• Which questions resulted in a stronger emotional response, and why?
• Which topics were they engaged in, and which were they more reluctant to discuss?
• What does it mean?

After you have a potentially deeper understanding of what they actually need, there is an important validation step that you don’t want to miss. It doesn’t require talking to the customer again. It requires a reality check on your side.

To do it, you need to ask yourself this:

“If they really meant <what you think they meant>, would they talk and respond as they did?”

When the answer is “yes” and it all makes sense, you are good to go. You can now make decisions based on this new, deeper understanding of their needs, even if they didn’t describe them explicitly.

Bonus tip: the same method works great also with your managers, investors, peers, and any other stakeholder. Product leadership starts with the ability to really, deeply understand people – customers as well as everyone else.